Peak Jokic vs Peak Curry

[SouBeachTalents]

Jokic is in that LeBron/Shaq/Hakeem tier of peak dominance, Curry’s a tier below that imo.

[Im Still Ballin]

Similar impact but Jokic's defensive limitations are harder to cover than Curry's. Neglible really, with the caveat of Steph being more ideal regarding high-level team/roster construction.

[Gohan]

Jokic is white, can't take anyone like that seriously. Therefore I chose curry

[tpols]

Jokic is white, can't take anyone like that seriously. Therefore I chose curry

Currys more white than black. His parents are both super lightskin. Unless you're adhering to the 1 drop rule lmao. Which was a white man distinction created specifically to discriminate.

[Axe]

The one who's international and didn't need six trips to the finals just to win his very first finals mvp.

[Mask the Embiid]

The one that has 4x as many rings…wtf . The one that is in the top 10 all time….the one that’s going to win the gold medal this year….the one that has a winning record vs the other one….i can keep going you sacks of shit

[AlternativeAcc.]

Jokic and it's not even remotely close. Seriously. It's not even a debate.

[FultzNationRISE]

A dominant big man just has a more efficient, consistent impact on the game than a jump shooter IMO, even if its the best shooter ever. And in this specific case when you compare intangibles and performance under pressure, it’s just an easy call.

Some guys are overrated or underrated by the public bc of very superficial things. People think Westbrook and Harden winning MVPs puts them in some kind of Top 50 ever category. They dont seem to notice or care that these guys cant be counted on when it matters. Which is more important, averaging a triple double in the regular season or excelling above the competition when it matters? Most fans have dumb priorities. It doesnt seem to matter to them that you woukdnt even WANT these guys in meaningful moments. And yet fans think theyre great. Its just parroting the common narrative. “I see their picture a lot, the league gave them an MVP. If I have to give an opinion I just rely on that. I cant really analyze their impact.” Theyre not being rational. Theyre not looking at evidence.

Curry of course IS clearly preferable to Harden and Westbrook. But his track record is that when it really matters… youre not sure youll get GREATNESS. In the regular season, absolutely. Record breaking, circus making, never been done kind of shooting brilliance. When its all on the line, and an agitator specialist like Delladova comes in to harass him? Curry gets thrown off a bit. He also gets too “dancey” when he makes a couple, and too pouty when he doesnt. He gets a bit too “casual behind the back passy” when hes trying to look cool in a critical finals moment. Compared to Jokic hes just a bit more poser and less killer.

It’s not a KNOCK on Curry to say hes less reliably great than Jokic. How many people arent?

It’s just a genuine fact. You can tell because the guys who hate jokic (bdonovan, maskembiid) or love curry (warriorfan) get emotional about it, while people who are neutral are just like “yeah, it’s jokic.”

Im sure there are some whod take Curry without an agenda. It’s fair to disagree. But MOST people who are just being matter of fact, take Jokic. And theres a reason for it.

[warriorfan]

A dominant big man just has a more efficient, consistent impact on the game than a jump shooter IMO, even if its the best shooter ever. And in this specific case when you compare intangibles and performance under pressure, it’s just an easy call.

Some guys are overrated or underrated by the public bc of very superficial things. People think Westbrook and Harden winning MVPs puts them in some kind of Top 50 ever category. They dont seem to notice or care that these guys cant be counted on when it matters. Which is more important, averaging a triple double in the regular season or excelling above the competition when it matters? Most fans have dumb priorities. It doesnt seem to matter to them that you woukdnt even WANT these guys in meaningful moments. And yet fans think theyre great. Its just parroting the common narrative. “I see their picture a lot, the league gave them an MVP. If I have to give an opinion I just rely on that. I cant really analyze their impact.” Theyre not being rational. Theyre not looking at evidence.

Curry of course IS clearly preferable to Harden and Westbrook. But his track record is that when it really matters… youre not sure youll get GREATNESS. In the regular season, absolutely. Record breaking, circus making, never been done kind of shooting brilliance. When its all on the line, and an agitator specialist like Delladova comes in to harass him? Curry gets thrown off a bit. He also gets too “dancey” when he makes a couple, and too pouty when he doesnt. He gets a bit too “casual behind the back passy” when hes trying to look cool in a critical finals moment. Compared to Jokic hes just a bit more poser and less killer.

It’s not a KNOCK on Curry to say hes less reliably great than Jokic. How many people arent?

It’s just a genuine fact. You can tell because the guys who hate jokic (bdonovan, maskembiid) or love curry (warriorfan) get emotional about it, while people who are neutral are just like “yeah, it’s jokic.”

Im sure there are some whod take Curry without an agenda. It’s fair to disagree. But MOST people who are just being matter of fact, take Jokic. And theres a reason for it.

tbh you are the one who gets emotional as well

you really hate curry dancing after 3 pointers, you hate it to the point where you dwell on it an unnecessary amount of the time and it’s obviously effected how you evaluate him as a player. Your takes on Curry have been so off base at times I think you are doing a troll, then I realize you aren’t, you just have let your biases cloud your judgement so much the stuff you say about him is just not true.


look i’m not going to sit here and debate all day, just letting you know from an outside perspective and you can take it or leave it, your steph curry takes are heavily biased and way off base.

[elementally morale]

Jokic. For three main reasons:

1) Each and every player who is NBA ready can play with him and will play their best basketball with him on the court. Everybody. You don't need to look for a certain type of player. It's plug and play.
2) If you double or triple him he will still beat you. If you double or triple Curry, the team will beat you. He draws attention and the others have numbers. With Jokic, it's still him.
3) Both players changed the game. It comes down to personal preference, but I like watching teamplay and passing more than lots of threes taken. I'm simply more entertained by a Jokic-led offense.

All that being said, I think both players are top 15. Curry won't go any higher. It's borderline top 10 at best. (Which is great.) We don't know what Jokic will do in the next 5 years, but he is not 30 yet. He can win some more rings, and one more MVP is not unlikely. (Honestly, not very likely either. He needs to play out of his mind to get another one. If it is debatable he won't win it again.)

[StrongLurk]

Curry is a top 10 player all time ~ 4 rings all with superstar production, GOAT season, only UMVP in history, etc.

But... he's capable of having bad games. Yolk might be the GOAT because he simply doesn't have bad games.

In no world is Curry ahead of any of these players.

MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Wilt, Bill R, Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe.

[SouBeachTalents]

In no world is Curry ahead of any of these players.

MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Wilt, Bill R, Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe.

I'd have Kobe ranked higher, but acting like you couldn't even make the argument over him is ridiculous.

[StrongLurk]

There is no question Curry is the better player. Jokic's game relies on one thing- his being bigger and heavier than other players. Without that, he is merely an above-average player- a good shot and a passer. Jokic barrels into the defender, creating open looks and double teams he can pass out of. Were he DeMarcus Cousins doing the same thing, he would foul out of the game.

Curry brings an unparalleled skill to the game that is obvious by watching him. Amazing handles, can dribble past anyone, absolute wizardry in ball-handling and facillitating, dribble penetration and finding teammates whereever they are, one of the best finishers at the rim, the best passer in the game, best off the ball, the best shooter in the game. And not spot up 3. That's not skill. He creates 3's, and still shoots at a high %, much higher difficulty than spot-up 3 pt shooters which adds minimal value to the team offense.

Superior conditioning. Curry at 35 has more in his legs down the stretch of a game than Jokic has in his 20s. The difference in conditioning shows in the quality of their play in the 2nd half.

Klay Thompson would be a 3 and D nobody on any other team. We wouldn't even be talking about him were he not on the Warriors. His wide open looks owe to Curry's gravity. Curry's ability to make people around him great is second to none. Look at Andrew Wiggins' emergence since he played with Steph. Jokic has that ability too with Aaron Gordon as an example, but Curry is famous for it- and has produced more as a result.

Neither player excels on defense but Curry is 100% committed and his work in the gym and conditioning shows. Jokic is simply too slow, doesn't contest well on the perimeter, and is lagging at the end of the game.

It's not easy to win 4 rings. Of players that won their first championship fully in the 2000s (2000-2001), it is exceedingly rare. Tony Parker and LeBron were the only other ones of that same era. If you look at anyone who won their first rings after 2010's- it's just LeBron and Curry as leaders of their teams.

What is this nonsense?

Curry has one ring as the best player in the series, which is 2022.

Lebron and KD cucked Curry and were clearly superior to him in those playoffs/finals battle. Curry by himself in 2015 and 2016 was very underwhelming. I love Curry, but he is overrated at this time and is not a top 10 player of all time.

I'll take what Jokic did last year over anything Curry has done.

[Carbine]

Jokic is a better playoff scorer (30 ppg average over the last four years on 63 ts)

He's a better passer.

A better conductor of offense.

Better rebounder.

Defensive impact is a wash.

Consistent dominance game to game is in Jokic favor during the playoffs as well.

Not sure what the argument is for Playoff Curry over Playoff Jokic

[FultzNationRISE]

tbh you are the one who gets emotional as well

you really hate curry dancing after 3 pointers, you hate it to the point where you dwell on it an unnecessary amount of the time and it’s obviously effected how you evaluate him as a player. Your takes on Curry have been so off base at times I think you are doing a troll, then I realize you aren’t, you just have let your biases cloud your judgement so much the stuff you say about him is just not true.

look i’m not going to sit here and debate all day, just letting you know from an outside perspective and you can take it or leave it, your steph curry takes are heavily biased and way off base.

It doesnt upset me, it's just my main knock on him so I bring it up when he's discussed. Someone thinking he's the GOAT isnt gonna affect my mood in real life for a single moment.

But if your team's down 10 in a big playoff game, and you havent been a factor, and then suddenly Barbosa hits a shot, and then Iguodala hits a shot, and then Bogut gets a block, and then Green steals a pass, and then Livingston hits a shot, all while you've contributed very little, and then suddenly your teammates have tied the game up, and then you finally make a shot and start skipping around celebrating and shimmying like you been bustin em up all game, and it's still only mid 3rd quarter and nothing has even been clinched yet I mean it's just cringe.

And then feelin yourself so much youre tryin to throw slick, unnecessary passes that result in turnovers... the guy's just always out there trying more to look like Mr Cool for the nickelodeon kids choice award photographers than he is locked in trying to convert the win before celebrating. Compared to any other all time great he's way more focused on flash and silliness than he is on converting the win. It's a fact.

I dont think the average person appreciates this difference. But it's something that to me is easily a top factor when I'm identifying things that separate guys with similar achievements on paper. A lot of achievements are circumstantial. How a guy conducts himself is not circumstantial.