Peak Jokic vs Peak Curry

[Im Still Ballin]

Curry built Iguodala and Bogut and Draymond and Livingston and Klay and Barnes and Barbosa from a box of scraps?

I dont...

I'm not sure what you even...



I'm confused.

[tpols]

Just to clarify , Murray would be all nba if he didn’t have health issues,

His post season run where Nuggets won the chip was definitely All NBA caliber of play.

If Klay ever played like Murray in the playoffs... Golden State would've NEVER acquired Durant nor would they have lost in 2016. That guy was putting up Wade or Kobe numbers while klay was shitting the bed at 16 ppg giving nothing else.

[tontoz]

Phoenix wasn’t the top seed. They would have never even beat the Lakers if AD hadn’t gone down. Shit over the hill Chris Paul also had his usual playoff injuries going on too. Lol.

So the leagues MVP and arguably the greatest offensive big man of all time couldn’t take one game from Deandre Ayton and the Suns? Lol. And on top of that he couldn’t even have the composure to not commit a cheap foul and get ejected like a bitch. Lmao.

Denver had Frank Compazzo and Austin Rivers in the starting lineup. Neither guy was in the league this past season.

The Suns were one game out of 1st place that year, made it to the Finals, then won 64 games the next year for the best record in the league.

[warriorfan]

If Klay ever played like Murray in the playoffs... Golden State would've NEVER acquired Durant nor would they have lost in 2016.

Definitely. Murray was pretty amazing during their title run. I just had to call that out because he says “jokic never even played with all nba players”….its insinuating he had no help. Murray was going off in the post season and his cast played well too. Not to take away from Joker but it’s it’s a false narrative to say he had no help.

[Akeem34TheDream]

My greatest concern is with roster construction on a high-level team. I think some of you need to take a step back and reassess this question from a team-building perspective. Jokic's defensive limitations as a paint/rim protector are a much greater concern than any of Curry's weaknesses or comparative shortcomings.

Optimal personnel and scheme can mitigate Nikola's positional deficiency. But finding those right pieces to compensate is a little tougher than it is for Steph. Hence why I think it's easier to build an ATG-level team with Curry. And he's done it three times: 2015, 2016, and 2017.

Jokic proved he could win a championship. But leading a 8-10+ SRS team? He'll need better defensive players who can make up for his subpar paint protection. A better bench could get Denver to 60+ wins, 6-7 SRS. But beyond that? You'd need upgrades over the starters. And finding those guys who can improve the defense without compromising the offense? Tough.

For instance, Jaren Jackson Jr would most likely improve the defense. He's long, mobile, and loves to contest shots and provide weakside shot-blocking. But even though he can shoot better than Aaron Gordon, does Denver lose too much on offense? Jokic and AG have insane chemistry with the lob and cutting game. I don't know if JJR can do that.

You'd need to stack the deck a little harder to get to that 8-10 SRS tier with Jokic IMO. Curry was able to build this in 2015 and 2016, with a box of scraps!

I see your point. Curry teams have higher ceilings and Jokic teams have higher floors. I also rate higher ceiling more. Therefore MJ > Lebron. Curry might be the greatest offensive engine ever(for the regular season at least). However in the playoffs, no franchise in history had more luck during their championships than the Warriors. Their strongest opponents got their stars injured in 2017 and 2018. They played an injured team in every single playoff round. Only in 2022 they beat everybody healthy. Otoh(shout out to 3ball) Jokic lost his 2 prime years to teammate injuries. When Klay couldnt play in 2019-20 season, Warriors decided to straight up tank lmao. Jokic has been better in the playoffs and that matters more to me.

[Norcaliblunt]

Denver had Frank Compazzo and Austin Rivers in the starting lineup. Neither guy was in the league this past season.

The Suns were one game out of 1st place that year, made it to the Finals, then won 64 games the next year for the best record in the league.

That Suns team proved to be frauds though. Lakers beat them if AD stays healthy, Clippers beat them if Leonard stays healthy, and we all saw what Giannis did to them.

Luka alone destroyed that 64 win Suns team the next year, so why couldn’t MVP Jokic even take one game from a less superior team with Chris Paul playing through a shoulder injury?

[FultzNationRISE]

[Carbine]

Definitely. Murray was pretty amazing during their title run. I just had to call that out because he says “jokic never even played with all nba players”….its insinuating he had no help. Murray was going off in the post season and his cast played well too. Not to take away from Joker but it’s it’s a false narrative to say he had no help.

I am insinuating that he hasn't had any help relative to what other ATG regular season teams have had

What Murray did in the playoffs has nothing to do with the regular season. Murray provided excellent help in the title run, but I'm arguing about regular season SRS here and how Jokic is harder to build a great team around for SRS purposes. Klay Thompson's struggles in the playoffs mean nothing as well - this is strictly a conversation about regular season SRS capability.

[Akeem34TheDream]

That Suns team proved to be frauds though. Lakers beat them if AD stays healthy, Clippers beat them if Leonard stays healthy, and we all saw what Giannis did to them.

Luka alone destroyed that 64 win Suns team the next year, so why couldn’t MVP Jokic even take one game from a less superior team with Chris Paul playing through a shoulder injury?

Imo that Suns series is the worst of his entire career. He was bad. CP3 COOKED him. I was harsh on him also. But every other ATG have worse preformances than that, don't they?

[tontoz]

That Suns team proved to be frauds though. Lakers beat them if AD stays healthy, Clippers beat them if Leonard stays healthy, and we all saw what Giannis did to them.

Luka alone destroyed that 64 win Suns team the next year, so why couldn’t MVP Jokic even take one game from a less superior team with Chris Paul playing through a shoulder injury?

How many starters on that Suns team aren't in the NBA now?

[Micku]

Just to clarify , Murray would be all nba if he didn’t have health issues,

His post season run where Nuggets won the chip was definitely All NBA caliber of play.

I don't think so. Not to say it's a diss towards Murray, but it's a respect to the competition. Like honestly, who would you cut?

I don't think Murray is better than:
Luka
Curry
SGA
Devin Booker
Ja Morant
De'Aaron Fox
Dame
Donovan Mitchell

And last year, Devin Booker didn't even get into the All-NBA. This year, you got Brunson now. You got Maxey is showing out. Although I feel Murray could do things similar, but Maxey I feel has more potential due to his speed and quickness. Murray is tough shot maker. And you still have Trae Young out there.

Like who would you cut for him to be in the All-NBA? I feel like all of those guys are better with the small exception of Maxey, but I feel like Maxey played better this year. But Murray does play at high level in the playoffs usually. He just isn't consistent enough to play like that in the RS. I feel like Murray could be better than what he is, but he is injury-prone. He does show up in big games.

I can't honestly say that he's an all-nba guy when others consistently provide similar or more production. There are times when Murray could play to that level and you see his potential, but there are legit other guys in the guard position that are better production-wise. The league is stacked full of talent right now, so it's hard to get into all-nba. But Murray could play like it sometimes like in the playoffs. If he keeps that level of play, Denver would be even more dangerous.

[Norcaliblunt]

How many starters on that Suns team aren't in the NBA now?

Chris Paul shouldn’t be that’s for sure.

How many players on that Suns team were MVP hailed to be a top 20 player ever and are frequently argued to be the best offensive big man of all time?

[tontoz]

Chris Paul shouldn’t be that’s for sure.

How many players on that Suns team were MVP hailed to be a top 20 player ever and are frequently argued to be the best offensive big man of all time?

How far did Curry get in the playoffs with Klay? Or should i say when did he actually make the playoffs without Klay?

[ImKobe]

What issues did Steph have, other than when he played on one leg in 2016?

It's too early for this right now. Jokic is still at his peak and has more to do before I'd put him over peak Steph. Steph had more help I agree but that also led to the most dominant RS ever in 2016, followed by the most dominant Playoff run ever in 2017.

Even when KD got injured he took them to the Finals and had one of the greatest individual series in NBA history against Portland in 2019, and took prime Kawhi to 6 games with half the GS rotation injured. I'd argue that Curry's 2022 title run was more impressive than anything Jokic has done so far in the POs, and that was a past-prime Steph with a team that was arguably worse than any of the healthy Denver ones.

[fsvr54]

Jokic easily lol