Peak Jokic vs Peak Curry

[Axe]

How far did Curry get in the playoffs with Klay? Or should i say when did he actually make the playoffs without Klay?

No klay, no play.

[Norcaliblunt]

How far did Curry get in the playoffs with Klay? Or should i say when did he actually make the playoffs without Klay?

Hey I’m not going hate on Klay. Steph needed him.

And I’m not hating on Jokic because he lost that 2021 series to Phoenix. The Suns probably were the better overall team. I’m being critical because of the way he lost while being MVP. He was swept in second round by a team that hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years and he got so frustrated he was tossed from the elimination game. Lol. If that were Curry his first MVP season we’d never hear the end of it. Jokic is a great player but he is not without faults.

[warriorfan]

What issues did Steph have, other than when he played on one leg in 2016?

It's too early for this right now. Jokic is still at his peak and has more to do before I'd put him over peak Steph. Steph had more help I agree but that also led to the most dominant RS ever in 2016, followed by the most dominant Playoff run ever in 2017.

Even when KD got injured he took them to the Finals and had one of the greatest individual series in NBA history against Portland in 2019, and took prime Kawhi to 6 games with half the GS rotation injured. I'd argue that Curry's 2022 title run was more impressive than anything Jokic has done so far in the POs, and that was a past-prime Steph with a team that was arguably worse than any of the healthy Denver ones.

ask FultzNationRise

he will give you some anecdote about how he remembers a time where steph curry turned the ball over in the fourth quarter, so that means he is a choker….or some in depth analysis like that lol

[tontoz]

Hey I’m not going hate on Klay. Steph needed him.

And I’m not hating on Jokic because he lost that 2021 series to Phoenix. The Suns probably were the better overall team. I’m being critical because of the way he lost while being MVP. He was swept in second round by a team that hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years and he got so frustrated he was tossed from the elimination game. Lol. If that were Curry his first MVP season we’d never hear the end of it. Jokic is a great player but he is not without faults.

It was literally a miracle that he got to the 2nd round with that roster. Everyone besides Jokic got hurt that year. They picked Rivers up off waivers late in the season and he was starting in the playoffs lol.

[elementally morale]

With Jokic I can say with a straight face that he is playing at a level I've never seen higher for an extended time period. Do I select Bird or Jokic as my franchise player is a debate I am willing to take part in. I may side with Bird, but I'd take the question seriously. Jokic or Shaq? Jokic or... it would make me think. The Curry and Kobe types are not in this discussion for me. As great as they are/were, I know I would not take them over the best players I've seen. Jokic is among the best of the best as far as quality of play is concerned. All the accolades are not (yet?) there, but basing this off of 'ability to play' he is tier 1 for me.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

It’s close. I don’t see Curry winning more than one in Jokic’s stead, though I can absolutely envision Jok winning 4 or more with Steph’s help.

Edit: reading comprehension fail. Peak4peak, give me Jokic. Playoff riser and more durable. I understand Curry’s gravity holds a lot of latent value that goes beyond the box score, but he’s had some plain bad series.

[Axe]

It’s close. I don’t see Curry winning more than one in Jokic’s stead, though I can absolutely envision Jok winning 4 or more with Steph’s help.

Edit: reading comprehension fail. Peak4peak, give me Jokic. Playoff riser and more durable. I understand Curry’s gravity holds a lot of latent value that goes beyond the box score, but he’s had some plain bad series.

Yup. Curry blew a 3-1 lead in the finals with a 73-win team.

[ImKobe]

ask FultzNationRise

he will give you some anecdote about how he remembers a time where steph curry turned the ball over in the fourth quarter, so that means he is a choker….or some in depth analysis like that lol

Which is crazy because Murray has carried Jokic in so many clutch moments in the Playoffs. Jokic fans/Curry haters will use the "no all-stars/all-NBA teammates" argument to boost him in this debate but ignore how Jamal Murray turns into a Kobe/Jordan clone in the Playoffs when it matters most.

Murray as the #2 averaged 26/6/7/2 on 59%TS for the title run last year.

Steph won 2 titles without any of his teammates averaging 20 a game for the Playoffs.

[ShawkFactory]

Which is crazy because Murray has carried Jokic in so many clutch moments in the Playoffs. Jokic fans/Curry haters will use the "no all-stars/all-NBA teammates" argument to boost him in this debate but ignore how Jamal Murray turns into a Kobe/Jordan clone in the Playoffs when it matters most.

Murray as the #2 averaged 26/6/7/2 on 59%TS for the title run last year.

Steph won 2 titles without any of his teammates averaging 20 a game for the Playoffs.

Yea but the quality of opponent that the Warriors had through through both of those runs are some of the weakest I can remember. Not that that matters in the long run though. Still respect. But it matters when trying to compare things across years.

They were fortunate with injuries quite a bit through both of those. If you're going to mention injuries in years they lost it's only fair to mention the other side. I'm okay ignoring it altogether as these things tend to come out in the wash. But be consistent.

[bizil]

It's Joker BECAUSE he's the most skilled offensive center ever. He's the best passing center as well and one of the top 10 passers of all time REGARDLESS of position. And triple double wise, he's likely gonna rank #1 of all time REGARDLESS of position. He's the CLOSEST THING we've seen to a center position of Larry Legend. Bird was the best player in the world at one point just like Joker is now.

No knock against Steph BUT Joker is getting to where ONLY guys like MJ, Bron, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq can be considered as good or better peak prime wise. Small guards like Steph, AI, Zeke, CP3, etc. are simply too small to be superior to those guys. GOAT wise, Steph has the clear edge though.

[plowking]

My greatest concern is with roster construction on a high-level team. I think some of you need to take a step back and reassess this question from a team-building perspective. Jokic's defensive limitations as a paint/rim protector are a much greater concern than any of Curry's weaknesses or comparative shortcomings.

Optimal personnel and scheme can mitigate Nikola's positional deficiency. But finding those right pieces to compensate is a little tougher than it is for Steph. Hence why I think it's easier to build an ATG-level team with Curry. And he's done it three times: 2015, 2016, and 2017.

Jokic proved he could win a championship. But leading a 8-10+ SRS team? He'll need better defensive players who can make up for his subpar paint protection. A better bench could get Denver to 60+ wins, 6-7 SRS. But beyond that? You'd need upgrades over the starters. And finding those guys who can improve the defense without compromising the offense? Tough.

For instance, Jaren Jackson Jr would most likely improve the defense. He's long, mobile, and loves to contest shots and provide weakside shot-blocking. But even though he can shoot better than Aaron Gordon, does Denver lose too much on offense? Jokic and AG have insane chemistry with the lob and cutting game. I don't know if JJR can do that.

You'd need to stack the deck a little harder to get to that 8-10 SRS tier with Jokic IMO. Curry was able to build this in 2015 and 2016, with a box of scraps!

I actually think its crazy the Nuggets are this good with that roster.

I look at OKC, Boston, Minny, Clippers, Bucks, etc and they are all significantly more talented IMO.

Jokic is a great floor raiser, and able to do a lot with very little. GSW were an insanely talented team. I don't think that of this Denver team.

[FultzNationRISE]

Ok so for the record:

Warrior fan and NorCali Blunt would take Curry. Mostly everyone else taking Jokic.

Im sure warrior fan, and nor cali are objective about curry and golden state tho. It’s not an agenda thing, theyre right and everyone else is wrong!


Hey did you guys know Real Men Wear Green rates Tatum the highest of any poster here?

It’s a shocking coincidence!

[FultzNationRISE]

Youd think people with an OBVIOUS BIAS IN THEIR NAME could just concede “hey, im obviously not objective, but im takin curry, or tatum, or whoever.” It’s not a big deal. These men are strangers. You dont get a prize for convincing others theyre the bestest.

The petty insistence that theyre being totally neutral about prefering their guy is just not great self awareness.

[BarberSchool]

Steph is a truly great all time great. Changed the game forever.

But … he can’t simply choose to take over a game in the same way that Jokic can.
Neither can truly PHYSICALLY dominate ANY game, but Kokic sure can do something similar to physical willfull dominance far more frequently, against far more matchups than Steph can even attempt to willfully exert on demand.

Perimeter-based, gravity-based “dominance” can never be as “durable” and “sustainable” as paint-based, ball-movement based, passing-based “dominance”

[NBAGOAT]

im conflicted. Jokic is more consistent in playoffs for sure. I dont think many have peaked like curry on offense in 16 and his help in this discussion gets overrated. His teams certainly had talent but that was defensive talent with dray,iggy, bogut, klay etc. On offense they had 1.5 creators in curry and draymond who can pass but not a scorer. Klay was a great shotmaker but didnt create for others. The nuggets have like 2.5 with jokic/murray and gordon(the draymond role) to a certain extent and 2 excellent floor spacers in porter and kcp. dont look at nuggets not having any all stars, they have more offensive talent than the 15-16 gs teams even relative to era and their defense is above average. most title teams have at least 2 shot creators. the 2022 team sure had 2.5 adding poole but recent history suggests poole might not have been that good. That team was deep but had 1 superstar and 1 all star in dray(wiggins,poole, klay werent all star lvl).

Warriors had some relatively easy runs in 15 and 22 but the nuggets run was also relatively easy last year. 22 warriors faced the celtics in finals at least. Nuggets certainly will have an extremely tough run this year but havent won the title yet.