When's the last time a DPOY is destroyed this bad?

[ImKobe]

You still cling to 50%? Is that stellar for you? That's average.

So, by your logic, since MJ had one average game he wasn't affected by Payton. He had 2 egregious games in 3 games. 1 average game doesn't reverse that. Even a good shooting game, ~60%+, isn't going to reverse two catastrophic games. Especially 26% on a close out game.

MJ got locked up by a guy 2 inches shorter and had a plumbing license. He fixed my sink during that series.

He had 22/9/7/2 on 45%TS in a blowout win. That's a prime Pippen stat line and you guys have hyped Pippen up for decades for posting that stat line, even going as far as to say that he was a superstar top 5 player of the 90s. Jordan putting up a Pippen stat line on a bad back though means that he got completely shut down lmao.

Jordan haters still cling onto that series and act like the GP calf injury is why the Bulls won, ignoring all the injuries that the Bulls dealt with in those Playoffs. Pippen, MJ, Kukoc & Harper were all playing hurt.

[theman93]

You still cling to 50%? Is that stellar for you? That's average.

So, by your logic, since MJ had one average game he wasn't affected by Payton. He had 2 egregious games in 3 games. 1 average game doesn't reverse that. Even a good shooting game, ~60%+, isn't going to reverse two catastrophic games. Especially 26% on a close out game.

MJ got locked up by a guy 2 inches shorter and had a plumbing license. He fixed my sink during that series.

Not average at all. 50% is 4% higher than what he shot in the playoffs that year. If MJ was truly bothered by Payton, how did he shoot so efficiently that game?

[ShawkFactory]

The sample size is too small to nitpick. It just boils down to mere logic. If Payton truly “locked up” MJ he wouldn’t have shot 50% in game 5. It simply came down to him making or missing shots.

So are you trying to say that a great defender can have no bearing on the level of shots that a great scorer gets? As has already been mentioned, a great player can sometimes hit tough shots anyway but he has to be on to do it. He's not going to get any easy baskets or even good looks to help over the course of a game and if the shot is even slightly off its going to be an off night scoring.

"Locked up" isn't the right phrase here but Payton certainly played him well and MJ didn't dominate him at all.

[j3lademaster]

Every player is going to have a few black marks on their resume. MJ’s was the second half of the 96 finals, his heat series vs Timmy and Zo, and an inefficient Knicks series. That’s a VERY small amount of playoff failures, none of which at the magnitude of a 2011 Lebron, for someone who won 6 titles and thus is still the consensus goat. Don’t have to go defending every single one of his failures, at some point you’re basically defending his dick size against the Madonna/Pippen drama.

[SaltyMeatballs]

With todays rules anyway

Jokic would dominate any era bud

[theman93]

So are you trying to say that a great defender can have no bearing on the level of shots that a great scorer gets? As has already been mentioned, a great player can sometimes hit tough shots anyway but he has to be on to do it. He's not going to get any easy baskets or even good looks to help over the course of a game and if the shot is even slightly off its going to be an off night scoring.

"Locked up" isn't the right phrase here but Payton certainly played him well and MJ didn't dominate him at all.

I’ve not stated or implied that at all. However you basically made the point I’ve repeatedly made - “ a great player can sometimes hit tough shots anyway but he has to be on to do it.” Jordan simply was on in game 5, and not in games 4 and 5. Just like he was on in games 1 and 3, and not in game 2.

[ShawkFactory]

I’ve not stated or implied that at all. However you basically made the point I’ve repeatedly made - “ a great player can sometimes hit tough shots anyway but he has to be on to do it.” Jordan simply was on in game 5, and not in games 4 and 5. Just like he was on in games 1 and 3, and not in game 2.

You kind of did by saying that it's a small sample as to why Jordan had off games ignoring that defense maybe contributed to it.

And MY point was that a great player, particularly one of Jordan's caliber, can score 30+ on 50% on an average night against a defense that is average. Maybe even more against a below average one.

What happened in that series is a tell-tale sign of a great defender. If it's almost anyone else he's scoring 30 anyway and not really having off nights like that.

[basketballcat]

Not average at all. 50% is 4% higher than what he shot in the playoffs that year. If MJ was truly bothered by Payton, how did he shoot so efficiently that game?

You realise that Jordan's pedestrian 50% in game 5 could have easily been an even worse 45% had he missed 1 more shot. It went in, so he got an unremarkable 50%.

How about the two abysmal games? If Payton didn't bother him, why didn't he shoot 60% on all games?

Oh wait, if he flukes one shot to make it to 50%, it's skill. If he throws brick after brick after being LOCKED UP by a shorter plumber, it's something else.

He got locked up. By a shorter plumber, no less.

[theman93]

You kind of did by saying that it's a small sample as to why Jordan had off games ignoring that defense maybe contributed to it.

And MY point was that a great player, particularly one of Jordan's caliber, can score 30+ on 50% on an average night against a defense that is average. Maybe even more against a below average one.

What happened in that series is a tell-tale sign of a great defender. If it's almost anyone else he's scoring 30 anyway and not really having off nights like that.

Then explain game 2. Payton was not his primary defender and he shot a meager 40%.

[ShawkFactory]

Then explain game 2. Payton was not his primary defender and he shot a meager 40%.

I mean..he had 29/8 and shot 16 FTs.

[BarberSchool]

So many perfect examples of DPOY’s getting murked.
Appreciate y’all !
This is PREMIUM AMMUNITION !

[basketballcat]

Then explain game 2. Payton was not his primary defender and he shot a meager 40%.

Even non DPOY plumbers lock him up.

LOCKED UP.

[Xiao Yao You]

Since the last time Gobert won DPOY?

He's a perfectly good defensive anchor, but he simply can't stop elite offensive players and schemes from going through him like he isn't even there. Nobody is scared of Gobert

Than why do they dribble inro the paint and out again or pass it out when hes in there?

[Xiao Yao You]

Since the last time Gobert won DPOY?

He's a perfectly good defensive anchor, but he simply can't stop elite offensive players and schemes from going through him like he isn't even there. Nobody is scared of Gobert

Jokic would dominate any era bud

Hed be great in any era. Dominate os pure speculation. You used to be able to touch the opponent as a defender especially when the offensive player is putting his body into you

[ImKobe]

So many perfect examples of DPOY’s getting murked.
Appreciate y’all !
This is PREMIUM AMMUNITION !

Curry murked Marcus Smart. Happy?