When's the last time a DPOY is destroyed this bad?

[SATAN]

Than why do they dribble inro the paint and out again or pass it out when hes in there?

You mean like this?

[theman93]

I mean..he had 29/8 and shot 16 FTs.

We're not talking about assists. We're talking how his scoring efficiency. It seems to me you want to attribute his poor shooting performances in games 4 and 6 to Payton, but game 2 he was just off? That doesn't check out.

[j3lademaster]

You mean like this?

weakass T. You need to let a player celebrate after that, might be the greatest ‘little man’ dunk of all time.

[ShawkFactory]

We're not talking about assists. We're talking how his scoring efficiency. It seems to me you want to attribute his poor shooting performances in games 4 and 6 to Payton, but game 2 he was just off? That doesn't check out.

Why doesn’t it check out?

Sure yea he was a little off. And against a better defender that little off turns into very off, as we saw. Because as I’ve mentioned (and find that I have to mention again), playing a great defender takes the easier looks away.

Again, I’m confused as to what you’re arguing. Are you saying that playing against a great defender can’t have an effect. The degree of difficulty of shot rises. Typically means percentage will be lower..

[Reggie43]

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that Robinson usually got the better of Hakeem prior to this series?

Robinson RS '93-'95: 26.9 PPG on 51.3% FG%, 3.0 TOs
Robinson vs. Hakeem '93-'95: 23.1 PPG on 44.5% FG%, 3.6 TOs

Robinson RS '90-'95: 25.7 PPG on 52.7% FG%, 3.0 TOs
Robinson vs. Hakeem '90-'95: 22.1 PPG on 46.6% FG%, 3.5 TOs

The first one is Hakeem's peak.

Beating him head to head in their matchups? Not sure prior to the series but Robinson was 32-16 alltime against Olajuwon in the regular season.

[theman93]

Why doesn’t it check out?

Sure yea he was a little off. And against a better defender that little off turns into very off, as we saw. Because as I’ve mentioned (and find that I have to mention again), playing a great defender takes the easier looks away.

Again, I’m confused as to what you’re arguing. Are you saying that playing against a great defender can’t have an effect. The degree of difficulty of shot rises. Typically means percentage will be lower..

For the second time, no. My point has been very clear. MJ's bad shooting % in games 4 and 6 had more to do with his shot being off than Payton "locking" him up. Game 5 makes that abundantly clear in my mind.

[ShawkFactory]

For the second time, no. My point has been very clear. MJ's bad shooting % in games 4 and 6 had more to do with his shot being off than Payton "locking" him up. Game 5 makes that abundantly clear in my mind.

I feel like we’re arguing different things and/or just not understanding one another.

Either way, the original point that someone made that I disagreed with was that MJ “destroyed” Payton. Whether the reason for him shooting poorly was because of Payton locking him up, or his shot just being off, or an in between where Payton made shots a little more difficult…that statement is simply not true.

[Reggie43]

Shaq vs Mutombo get similarly judged off one series where Shaq was at his absolute peak vs a 35 year old Mutombo.

How many of you guys know that Shaq has never scored more than 30 points against Deke in their careers outside that finals matchup?

Shaq had just 21.5ppg in 24 career games against Mutombo although Shaq won most of those games.

[theman93]

I feel like we’re arguing different things and/or just not understanding one another.

Either way, the original point that someone made that I disagreed with was that MJ “destroyed” Payton. Whether the reason for him shooting poorly was because of Payton locking him up, or his shot just being off, or an in between where Payton made shots a little more difficult…that statement is simply not true.

MJ neither “destroyed” Payton nor did Payton “lock up” MJ which is the debate I was having lol

[90sgoat]

Shaq had just 21.5ppg in 24 career games against Mutombo although Shaq won most of those games.

Shaq has a lot of such stats.

Ostertag also held Shaq to quite decent numbers, around 25ppg, while being the one who swatted him the most. I believe Shaq has even said that Ostertag was his most difficult cover.

https://saltcityhoops.com/clash-of-t...greg-ostertag/

[Xiao Yao You]

And the great Sloan preferred Collins

[ShawkFactory]

MJ neither “destroyed” Payton nor did Payton “lock up” MJ which is the debate I was having lol

"Locked up" isn't the right phrase here but Payton certainly played him well and MJ didn't dominate him at all

That was in my first reply to you

[RogueBorg]

lmao@theman93 jumping through hoops to defend some guy shooting horribly.

You still haven't explained Jordan shooting 50% in game 5 with Payton guarding him. Go.

[hold this L]

Payton was 2 inches shorter than Jordan. He had a plumbing license as well.

Payton didn't guard Jordan until game 4. The series went 2-1, in favour of the Sonics, with the 6'4" plumber clamping down Jordan.
Jordan's stats:
Game 4: 23 pts, 31.6 FG%
Game 5: 26 pts, 50 FG%
game 6: 22 pts, 26.3%

He got locked up.

Jokic's stats vs Rudy in the first 4 games were not good though, he just destroyed him in the last game. Which can happen to anyone.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jokic's stats vs Rudy in the first 4 games were not good though, he just destroyed him in the last game. Which can happen to anyone.

And it was a 1 possession game while he was supposedly destroyed